FSM in the UK

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FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Hello all, I was unsure what to put as my second ever post on here so I thought what better way than to ask who in the UK is a Pastafarian and if anyone knows the legal status of Pastafarianism on those shores?

If possible can ya'll from the Uk let me know if 1. you're a Pastafarian and 2. If legally a Pastafarian can conduct legal weddings within the UK.

I'm extremely interested in becomming ordaned and I really would like a little advice from other UK based Pastafarians.

RAmen.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby pieces o'nine on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:11 pm

Black Bart, thee fiendish brains behind Bart Industries and fishhead stoo, is not only a mod but a Welsh person living in London. DaveL is a mod and from Australia. There are several other pirates claiming to be from some part of the UK; you can post in Games to find them as well.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:43 am

Arrrrrrrrr, Thank ye sir. I'll poke about and see whats happening.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Roy Hunter on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:29 am

Whereabouts in the UK are you? The law on marriage ceremonies is different in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby DavidH on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:46 am

Welcome, Animalzilla! I am also English, I live in Herefordshire and am a devout Pastafarian of the Sunny sect - you will be aware that we are gravity deniers.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby black bart on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:50 am

I didn't know that we are gravity deniers...only the other day I threw an apple up in the air and...wait a minute...what happened to the apple? :shocked:
The smoke wafted gently in the breeze across the poop deck and all seemed right in the world.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:10 am

Arrrrrr to yerrrrrrr.
Hello mateys, thanks for responding. When I'm not in America I live in oxfordshire. I have been doing some research on marrage in the uk and I think we, as pastafarians can indeed register with the superintendent registrar in order to perform legal marrages. The only hurdle I have found is written in law and it states among other things, the religion must be serious. Now I know most people see pastafarianism as a joke so I think when I get back to the UK I'll register and see what happens. Aye, am ordaained if ya wonderin. :fsm_float:
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:24 am

DavidH wrote:Welcome, Animalzilla! I am also English, I live in Herefordshire and am a devout Pastafarian of the Sunny sect - you will be aware that we are gravity deniers.

DavidH wrote:Welcome, Animalzilla! I am also English, I live in Herefordshire and am a devout Pastafarian of the Sunny sect - you will be aware that we are gravity deniers.


After long deliberation I have come to the conclusion that until categoric proof of gravity exsists I'll be one to believe that the FSM is holding us down, think about it, babies have a soft spot on their head if it was not for the holding down of the FSM that soft spot would never harden. Proof I feel :)
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Cardinal Fang on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:23 pm

Another Oxfordshire Pastafarian here.

In the UK, marriages must be performed by a person authorised to register marriages in the district you are in. In practice that means either a civil registrar, or religious person such as a priest. Someone who holds Pastafarian beliefs could be a registrar by training, but by law isn't able to conduct a religious i.e. Pastafarian ceremony.

Weddings must take place in a registered building that is accessible to the public. As Pastafarians don't have churches, you'd have to get married in somewhere registered for civil ceremonies. Current UK law says that you cannot have any form of religious ceremony in somewhere registered for civil ceremonies.

This is a long way of saying that in the UK at the moment you can't have a legally valid Pastafarian wedding. However there is no reason at all why UK Pastafarians couldn't adopt a system similar to how Humanists conduct their marriages in the UK. First of all you deal with the legal formalities by obtaining a civil marriage certificate at a Register Office (you don't need to have a big ceremony there - just have the witnesses needed). Afterwards (it doesn't even need to be on the same day), you have your Pastafarian wedding/ partnership ceremony in the location you choose with all your friends and family, and in the manner you want.

Humanists have a network of celebrants who will conduct Humanist weddings and the like. I don't know off the top of my head know if there are any Pastafarian celebrants in the UK who are able to officiate at such an occasion.

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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Rev. Rowan Redbeard on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:14 pm

Spot me the air fare and a place to stay and I'll do it. :haha:
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Cardinal Fang wrote:Another Oxfordshire Pastafarian here.

In the UK, marriages must be performed by a person authorised to register marriages in the district you are in. In practice that means either a civil registrar, or religious person such as a priest. Someone who holds Pastafarian beliefs could be a registrar by training, but by law isn't able to conduct a religious i.e. Pastafarian ceremony.

Weddings must take place in a registered building that is accessible to the public. As Pastafarians don't have churches, you'd have to get married in somewhere registered for civil ceremonies. Current UK law says that you cannot have any form of religious ceremony in somewhere registered for civil ceremonies.

This is a long way of saying that in the UK at the moment you can't have a legally valid Pastafarian wedding.

Quote edited - Am I allowed to do that?

CF


I have been doing more digging,
I understand all of the above however, certain events across europe could lead in the right to perform a legal pastafarian wedding. Our governments own Department for International development says "Religion or Belief is defined as being any religion, religious belief or similar philosophical belief.", and they use the following to help define this:

A belief in a supreme being or a
philosophy for living.

A practice of worship
(individual or collective).

The presence of a clear belief
system.

Evidence of a profound belief
affecting an individual’s way of life
or view of the world.

A group or
following of people who
observe the beliefs, values, customs
and traditions as set down by a
Supreme Being or philosophy of life.
(Source https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/185068/religion-or-belief-core-script.pdf )

So as long as we can fufil the top 3 of these 4 as a minimum:
* cogent
* serious
* cohesive
* compatible with human dignity.

Legislation in the UK would protect Pastafarians under the Equality Act 2006, if pastafarians are protected under this act then by default Pastafarianism is a recognised religion and therefore should eb granted the ability to perform religious marrages.

( Please be aware I'm not bright so all of the above may be noodlepoo )




That alone should be enough to enable the people in power to grant a Pastafarian minister to perform religious weddings.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Cardinal Fang on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:10 pm

Sorry, maybe I should clarify

There is nothing whatsoever to stop any person being able to conduct a Pastafarian wedding ceremony to marry people in the eyes of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

However that marriage will not be recognised as valid or legal by the British state and you will have none of the legal rights or protections that are given to married couples or those in civil partnerships under UK law.

Whether you are representing a religion or not, you still have to be authorised to legally register marriages in your area, for any wedding you conduct to be legally valid and recognised. I understand that before you become a registered individual you have to have training in things like registration law and procedures. This goes for both secular and religious people alike. Civil registrars are normally trained via their local council or authority, priests and the like learn it whilst they're training to become priests etc. I doubt that can just ask the council to authorise you just like that. The rules apply across the board.

But once a couple have that wee bit of paper from a registry office saying they are legally married, no-one then stop them from having a full blown Pastafarian wedding ceremony to solemnise their relationship in their own religion i.e. Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.

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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:18 pm

Understood.

Thank you for clarifying, there would seem to be a lot of work involved to get this done so when I'm back in the Uk i might look in to it so as to be able to do things legally.
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Roy Hunter on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:28 pm

Scotland is still part of the UK. Not for long, I hope, but whilst it still is the Government is proposing to allow 'groups promoting a belief' to marry people legally, in the same way as ministers and humanist celebrants currently do. I was married in a humanist ceremony, and once we had signed the paperwork at the ceremony (along with our celebrant and witnesses), we had to take it to the Registry Office to register our marriage, just as if we had a religious ceremony. This change would make it possible for other non-religious organisations to sponsor celebrants.

As the news article suggests, this opens up conducting marriages to Jedis and Flat-Earthers. I think the Pastafarians need to be right in there...
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Re: FSM in the UK

Postby Animalzilla on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:42 pm

Roy Hunter wrote:
As the news article suggests, this opens up conducting marriages to Jedis and Flat-Earthers. I think the Pastafarians need to be right in there...

Flat-Earthers, I didn't realise they were still about.

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