:( So... Today.. :(

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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:53 pm

what was up there....meaning heaven?


So the police got involved, when there was no open diplay of violence or opposition? this, my friends, is why Canada is better than the United States.

Up here, the police dont usually hang around schools
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
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Postby EarthRise on Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:02 pm

blackeyedbutch wrote:as to this, I dunno you might be right I was just passing on what I have to hear nearly everytime someone associates Wiccan to magic


Understandable. Wiccans do make the point of clarifying the difference between "magic" - a definable set of illusions intended to captivate an audience - and "magick," which is the collection and interaction between herbs, objects, spells, and supernatural forces of earth to influence the condition of the universe.

blackeyedbutch wrote:
EarthRise wrote:I'm saying that real Pastafarians realize that Pastafarianism is a joke. Against the concept of ID we maintain it is a real religion. Otherwise, it is a satire.


Its so much a joke that its not a joke.


True, true. It's a sad, sad day that caused Pastafarianism to come into being.

Trilom, I sympathize, but you aren't going to get anywhere with this issue as long as Pastafarianism is known and defined as a parody.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:33 pm

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Postby blackeyedbutch on Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:36 pm

A couple suggestions Brian:

1) get in touch with that one lawyer you spoke of that offereds to represent you even if you don't want him to represent you just find out what your legal rights are from here to see if you could pursue this in court.

2) incase all else fails try going to your principle and explaning that other than the pirate regalia you didn't mean for any of this to be blown up as much as it has been but you would like for her to observe your faith as if she would any other and maybe get the signatures of your teachers saying that it is not a distraction to be wearing an eyepatch in class even if not for medical reasons. I know this may be giving in but still with this start wearing the eye patch once a month at first then next school year once a week. Doing the apology to the principle may have her give you enough respect to obseve and tolerate your faith.



and on a more personal note: How is it in school now whats people's reaction to you?
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Postby Trilom on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:00 am

I've been nothing but respectful to them, even after they want to persecute me. And infact, it is a guy who is the principal, a girl is the Asst Principal. And on another note, the teachers, in my opinion, are now scared to voice their own opinion, because an open supporter of mine, my world history teacher, who knows me, supported me, and he got a letter in his file, which means, it will be there that he defied what an administator says, which is in my eyes *whispers* nazi......
I can't do the teachers signatures, even though they all told me it wasn't a distraction, I didn't wear it the whole class anyways, it was put on when I left, and after I got situated, took it off and began learning, I never ment to make it distracting.
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Postby EarthRise on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:05 am

Your problem lies here, in the first line.

Wikipedia wrote:The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the deity of a parody religion founded in 2005[...]


Emphasis mine.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
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Postby Trilom on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:16 am

EarthRise wrote:Your problem lies here, in the first line.

Wikipedia wrote:The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the deity of a parody religion founded in 2005[...]


Emphasis mine.


Like I've said in many other things, wikipedia is invalid and false, it can be manipulated to say what someones personal adgenda wants. The example I just used in another forum is this.

Christianity is a monotheistic[1] religion centered on the life and teachings of The Tooth Fairy as presented in the New Testament.[2] Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God and the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament. With an estimated 2.1 billion adherents in 2001, Christianity is the world's largest religion.[3] It is the predominant religion in Europe, the Americas, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Philippine Islands and Oceania.[4] It is also growing rapidly in Asia, particularly in China and South Korea.[5]


I'm sorry, but the constitution gives me the right to believe what I want, and I put faith in the FSM.
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Postby EarthRise on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:28 am

Trilom wrote:Like I've said in many other things, wikipedia is invalid and false, it can be manipulated to say what someones personal adgenda wants.


You misunderstand me. Public opinion, and opinion of most Pastafarians, of FSMism suggest a completely satirical religion. I use Wikipedia because it is representative of public opinion.

I'm sorry, but the constitution gives me the right to believe what I want, and I put faith in the FSM.
RAmen


In an ideal world, that might be the case. But a) you're a minor, and don't have such rights (they belong to your parents), and b) most people are even less inclined to give credit than they would to, say, Wicca, because Wicca doesn't have that commitment to being a religious lampoon.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
-Darwin
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Postby rpgaction on Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:03 am

To all the people claiming that the school is justified in their action because Bryan doesn't really believe in FSM - would you tell a Jew they couldn't wear a cross because they don't believe Jesus is the son of God?

EarthRise wrote:But a) you're a minor, and don't have such rights (they belong to your parents)


Please tell me where in the Constitution it says that the Bill of Rights is inapplicable to minors.
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Postby MPTrooper on Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:37 pm

In the Constitution, No where.

However Legal precedent has time and again upheld that Minors under the age of 18 have curtailed rights and privileges.

It would explain for example why a minor is not allowed to drink, drive, gamble, Vote, ETC ETC even though people over the age of 18 are allowed to do so.

This kid has no rights. He's just some teenager who gets his rocks off making trouble and giving legitimate authority headaches, just like every other kid in this world. Hell the first dozen times or so he started calling the people who disagreed with him Nazi's should have been a hint.

It's a good thing the media is starting to ignore this. With any luck the ACLU will also pass on this ridiculous “caseâ€￾. (They may not, seeing as how f'ed up those guys are but there’s always hope). And if by some tragedy it does wind up in court, the judge should have enough sense to throw the case out and levy court expenses on this teenager.

Of course from what I understand his parents are against this whole thing so with any luck they'll start smacking some sense into this poor child’s head.
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Postby EarthRise on Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:59 pm

rpgaction wrote:To all the people claiming that the school is justified in their action because Bryan doesn't really believe in FSM - would you tell a Jew they couldn't wear a cross because they don't believe Jesus is the son of God?


This would be a legitimate statement were Judaism to actually have a statement insisting on its own status as a joke faith.

As I said, I don't support it, and in an ideal world there would be no such religious distinction. But we aren't in an ideal world, are we? While religion remains a subject with such gravity, Pastafarianism will never measure up as valid except for in circumstances of parody.

rpgaction wrote:
EarthRise wrote:But a) you're a minor, and don't have such rights (they belong to your parents)


Please tell me where in the Constitution it says that the Bill of Rights is inapplicable to minors.


Parents are permitted to impose religious standards on children. Minors recieve the basic set of rights and legal privileges, but matters that involve choice are given to the parents. Religious and speech rights are difficult to award to those who aren't of adult age.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
-Darwin
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Postby Marcion on Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:22 am

Trilom,

don't be dismayed at those debating whether this is an actual religion or not. Your curtailed expression is exactly the type of double standard on which this movement was founded to point out.

My son is wearing his eyepatch to school now as well. Consider yourself a bona-fide activist.

/Ramen
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Postby EarthRise on Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:18 am

Marcion wrote:Trilom,

don't be dismayed at those debating whether this is an actual religion or not. Your curtailed expression is exactly the type of double standard on which this movement was founded to point out.

My son is wearing his eyepatch to school now as well. Consider yourself a bona-fide activist.

/Ramen


a) Big talk for a newcomer. I should point out that, in this forum, we tend to debate proposed viewpoints, rather than just pretend they don't exist and have no contribution. As you seem to have deemed reasonable.

b) May I remind you that this movement wasn't founded to criticize the universal double standard of religion at all? The Pastafarian religion arose following Bobby's 2005 letter to the Kansas Board, an objective intended to parody in a derogatory manner the entrance of Intelligent Design in the science classroom. The movement may have been married to religious expression since, but it certainly was not established upon it.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
-Darwin
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Postby Marcion on Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:58 pm

What has my registration date to do with anything? I'll assume you just got carried away and didn't mean that ad hominem. He's 16, and IMO being patronized somewhat (with good intentions all around). I'm sure he takes it all in stride, but encouragement is sometimes a nice addition when you are blazing a trail.

As far as double standards, yes it was created to point out the double standards between religion and science in an acedemic setting. The rigorous falsification of science vs the blind acceptance of faith are not two sides of a coin, they are completely different currencies. That same model applies to objective discourse in other double standards in academia as well; if, for instance, study of theology is frowned upon in a setting (say, suspension bridge design 101), then FSM has no place there as well. The line cannot be fuzzy, it has to be defined. If students are required to attend school then school has to draw clear lines from a single standard.
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Postby EarthRise on Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:55 am

Marcion wrote:What has my registration date to do with anything? I'll assume you just got carried away and didn't mean that ad hominem.


You misunderstand my intent. I feel that you found it appropriate to absolutely ignore all other debate that has since been occurring in your grandiose statement
don't be dismayed at those debating whether this is an actual religion or not. Your curtailed expression is exactly the type of double standard on which this movement was founded to point out.

which completely overrides all discussion thus far. If you wish to make a point, we humbly request you support it. As a newcomer, you might not have been aware of this.

Marcion wrote:As far as double standards, yes it was created to point out the double standards between religion and science in an acedemic setting. The rigorous falsification of science vs the blind acceptance of faith are not two sides of a coin, they are completely different currencies. That same model applies to objective discourse in other double standards in academia as well; if, for instance, study of theology is frowned upon in a setting (say, suspension bridge design 101), then FSM has no place there as well. The line cannot be fuzzy, it has to be defined. If students are required to attend school then school has to draw clear lines from a single standard.


The FSM was founded in an effort to parody extremes of religious demands, not to require total religious equality. There would be a distinction had Bobby actually taken steps to ensure Pastafarian creationism was taught in the classroom along with ID. As it were, a simple mockery was all that was necessary; the FSM became a hallmark of the ID/science debate.

I also think I am being misunderstood again. You stated:
Your curtailed expression is exactly the type of double standard on which this movement was founded to point out.

I do not deny that the FSM has become an icon for religious prejudice. But your statement was erroneous; the movement was not intended for religious expression, but instead, for the use of supernatural phenomena and the rape of the scientific method in modern scientific classrooms.

That was my purpose, one that I do think was fulfilled.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
-Darwin
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