Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby TDKs on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:36 pm

Also, whole bulbs in a glass pan of cherry tomatoes and mushrooms when roasted make the dish taste amazing.

It's also incredible when you pop the cloves and smoosh them on toast for breakfast the next day. Omnomnom...!
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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby Rev. Daniel Scott on Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:57 pm

I quite like this thread! Garlic, galore! Glad you reminded me, I've got some sitting uneaten in the fridge.
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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby bonsaiherb on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:07 pm

Not a garlic rant but a comment from a plants man and nurseryman. Garlic is often SOLD as a health supplement ....

Having worked in the Santa Cruz/Gilroy,Salinas area of CA., I can only caution garlic users to buy 'organic' garlic. Salinas may be the garlic capital of CA. but it is also heavily pesticided and the use of herbicides is commonplace. During some seasons of the year I could barely drive through that valley without wanting to put on a gas mask. Worse yet, we are now importing (Wall mart) most of our garlic** from China which not only has the worst track record for polluted soils but the very water they irrigate with.

SO???? Try searching out organic farmers in this country. Buy locally, but buy organically. I have used this supplier in Texas for decades and his website is awesome.

Gourmet Garlic Gardens http://gourmetgarlicgardens.com/

** throw in honey as well.
Another site worth investigating would be Filaree Garlic Farm in WA.
http://www.filareefarm.com/ Great links!!!
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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby Cardinal Fang on Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:21 am

I would recommend home grown garlic over Chinese garlic too - but not because of any pesticide issue (as any residue remaining would be minisule and in too small a quantity to be harmful), but rather because (certainly in the UK), home grown garlic tends to be better and stronger tasting than Chinese imported, which tends to be a little too mild for my liking

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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby bonsaiherb on Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:49 am

Having a pest adviser's license and having worked with some licensed pest control people, I must disagree. "I would recommend home grown garlic over Chinese garlic too - but not because of any pesticide issue (as any residue remaining would be miniscule and in too small a quantity to be harmful),"

1. All people react differently to pesticides. What will put one person under will not affect another.
2. Some pesticides (dermal and oral toxicity) vary greatly. Some former organic pesticides like Nicotine sulfate would put you in the grave if you spilled the concentrate on your palm. Others like Malathion you could pour on and probably get little reaction (comparative) BUT, Malathion never leaves your body and gets stored in your body fat. One day, being complacent with this "safe" insecticide you will apply it and keel over needing to be hospitalized. Other pesticides being applied to crops are fine powder like substances that can be windblown from the application to other crops. They also are deadly to bees. Most EU countries have banned them.
3. We are ignoring the herbicides and fungicides being applied to crops. The latter has turned out to be a big issue as well, esp. to soft fruits like raspberries, strawberries and fuzzy peaches. Hard to wash off.
4. We are also dealing with water (irrigation) that may be contaminated by all the above as well as fecal coliform.
5. Sometimes shipping also adds to the problem. Residues of fumigants in apples and sweet cherries can be a real problem. Methyl bromide fumigation is commonly used in the shipping of many fruits, avocados, oranges etc. Some countries such as Japan have banned the importation of such treated fruit. I can attest to this! A friend bought a couple of boxes (Co-op buying) of oranges and then threw the empty boxes into a burn pile. Fir and Cedar trees twenty away defoliated from the released fumes. Nothing to do with the heat!!! -- just the smoke.

So as you suggested buy locally and buy from an organic grower if you can.
I would return you to the site I mentioned.
http://gourmetgarlicgardens.com/ Check out the umpteen varieties he carries. A list of varieties can be found here!
http://gourmetgarlicgardens.com/boutiqu ... phabetical

I remember one he called the "Firecracker garlic" Nothing too bad, until a few minutes passed. It then would explode in your gut and you would start sweating like you couldn't believe. I thought even my hair (when I had some) began to sweat.

Some varieties can also be used to make great insecticides.
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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby Cardinal Fang on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:04 pm

I'm not disputing that pesticides can be dangerous - just pointing out that the traces consumed during a normal diet are nowhere near enough to cause toxicity.

When it comes to organic food, it is a myth that organic producers don't use pesticides, they just use natural ones rather than "synthetic" ones (the definition of a pesticide after all is a chemical with the purpose of killing insects, or warding off animals, or destroying weeds, or mitigating any other kind of pest). The thing about natural pesticides is that we know less about their effects that synthetic pesticides because conventional "synthetic" pesticides are so highly regulated and have been for some time. There is very little real data about the most likely pesticide residues that occur on organic crops. We do know that organic pesticides that have been studied have been found to be as toxic as synthetic pesticides*. There's also evidence that because many organic pesticides are less effective than synthetic ones, more have to be used to get the same effect (according to National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy stats, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulphur, are used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre). There is a fallacy that because things that are "natural" that they are safer or better in some way

*Take the example of Rotenone. Because it is natural in origin (it occurs in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants), it was considered "safe" as well as "organic". In 2005 it was discontinued in the US as research found that exposure to rotenone causes Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans (rotenone attacks the mitochondria, the power plants of the cell). Rotenone got re-approved for organic use in 2010, and is used by also used by fisheries management officials as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species.

Saying "buy organic because non-organic is grown using pesticides" misses out that organic uses at least as much pesticide, and there's less evidence that such pesticides are long-term safe.

Buying local when you can is probably a good idea though (supporting local economy, reduced food miles etc).

And like I said - home grown garlic is often stronger than imported Chinese. Here in the UK, Isle of Wight Garlic are excellent for all sorts of garlic things, from fresh and smoked garlic (nomnomnom) to condiments. I'm just waiting for their elephant garlic to be ready at the end of July.

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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby bonsaiherb on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:19 pm

Reply to Cardinal Fang,

"There is a fallacy that because things that are "natural" that they are safer or better in some way ...

Saying "buy organic because non-organic is grown using pesticides" misses out that organic uses at least as much pesticide, and there's less evidence that such pesticides are long-term safe."

I agree with the first comment, not with the latter.

I would also quietly add that 'home gardeners' often abuse pesticides and herbicides in a greater percentage than do farmers. That said, the use of systemic chemical fungicides and pesticides and now with transgenic crops where the plant itself becomes immune to herbicides is usually preserved for farmers.
I never considered myself to be an organic farmer and used chemical fertilizers supplimented by rotation with organics. Nitrate is nitrate and you are correct that the misapplication of 'organic' manures can be harmful as well. Using Kelp, bonemeal etc is usually an expensive alternative and the 'superphosphates. ureas and sulfates of ammonia are totally cheaper.

I think the jury is out on the soil health however. Bacterium and soil micro flora may be more damaged than by the slower release organics. As for the toxicity of some organic pesticides, you are correct and I believe I pointed that out already. There are also issues of half-life times, oral and dermal toxicity. The Nicotine Sulfate that could kill you lickity split will degrade its toxicity levels withing days ... not so the chemical ones.

The point I obviously did NOT make is that I THINK people should grow more of their own foods and learn how to care for their soils and plants. I have worked in three commercial greenhouses and 'Temac' was widely used. It had a two week holding period before the houseplants could be shipped. However, the employees had to work in those enclosed greenhouses every day. Just Mexicans and wetbacks at that time. No one gave a damn. It was also used on the vegetable fields and a nurse friend who worked in Watsonville had the hesart wrenching tale of a farm worker who came home and his little girl hugged him. His clothing was so full of the stuff, she died even though she was treated in the hospital.

This same systemic was used in WA state on potato crops. The state finally banned it and the salesman I talked to said 'no problem," we''ll simply ship it to Idaho which had no such ban.
In the Canadian Maritimes (PEI) they used to use 2-4 d to kill back the potatoes for easier harvesting. It also made the potatoes redder and more sell able.

That is why I grow most of my vegetables on site, or buy them from a farmer I trust.
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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby Cardinal Fang on Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:02 am

bonsaiherb wrote:The point I obviously did NOT make is that I THINK people should grow more of their own foods and learn how to care for their soils and plants.


I concur. I try and grow what I can (which is difficult when you live in a flat and have a small shelf that the landlord laughingly calls a balcony), but I have a sack garden, (instructions here or here) and do quite well with chili plants.

I'd even go further and encourage people (if they can) to source and grow the old cottage garden (aka heirloom or heritage) varieties of fruits and veg, as most modern varieties have been developed for large-scale mass production, and therefore are more concerned with speed of growth, heavy cropping and the like rather than flavour and sustainability. When you're growing your own rather than mass-producing, plants that take longer to ripen aren't necessarily a bad thing. I appreciate it isn't always easy to do this, but it is definately worth doing if you can.

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Re: Garlic Terminology - Must Read!

Postby bonsaiherb on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:25 am

While we are on stinky subjects I have an interesting tidbit. Medieval habits.
"Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and were still smelling pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the b.o." And while I am besotted with Soccer I must add to the rivalry (not revelry) between nations.

"Three guys, an Englishman, a Frenchman and an American are out walking along the beach together one day. They come across a lantern and a genie pops out of it. "I will give you each one wish, " says the genie. The American says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in America." With a blink of the genie's eye, 'FOOM' - the land in America was forever made fertile for farming. The Frenchman was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around France, so that no one can come into our precious country." Again, with a blink of the Genie's eye, 'POOF' - there was a huge wall around France. The Englishman asks, "I'm very curious. Please tell me more about this wall. The Genie explains, "Well, it's about 150 feet high, 50 feet thick and nothing can get in or out." The Englishman says, "Fill it up with water." GO FRANCE, GO team U.S.A.
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