The Obvious Question

[Ronin]

I study Buddism informally -- and am basically agnostic (I am not sure enough about the facts to say I am atheist - I can't rule out the possibility of one or more deities; I expect to die without knowing one way or the other). I started out life in a Methodist family, but luckily for me I was encouraged to question and study other religions (this was the 60s and 70s - a more open time...boy they were wrong about that -- I would posit why most congregations today have more 'fundamentalist' and unquestioning precepts - not allowing real discussion on these subjects -- judging from my discussions with folks who teach bible school in various sects).

I believe very strongly that we have responsiblity for our actions; hence why I probably gravitated to Buddism - this goes hand in hand with the idea of doing no harm and the 'middle way'. Without a moral component there would be no restraint. We would simply do whatever we could get away with - which is not a world I want to live in. This is for each of us to determine for ourselves -- I do not believe in propaganda in the schools to force children to think a specific way in this regard, and I certainly will fight when my tax dollars are put to such use.

Ironically I think Jesus' life is a good model for live by - and has many parallels to Budda's life. I believe he would be spinning in his grave (little inside Christian joke there) if he were to meet many so-called Christians today, who do despicable things in his name and twist his teachings to suit their political ends.

(If you are Christian, yet refrain from believing the more fundamentalist aspects of congregations today - then know that I respect your religious views; people like you are who I grew up with in the Methodist congregation in my boyhood home. Somewhere along the way judgmental and intollerant people exerted their influence upon many protestant conventions - distorting the traditional view of tollerance and love that Jesus preached. I really have no patience for people who want to marginalize me and people like me because they believe we are going to burn in hell - and they are somehow above the law because they are the chosen ones - perhaps willing to help me get to hell quicker in the bargain {Pat Robertson of the '700 Club' is infamous for this line of thinking}. This is wrong and is not what Jesus stood for, or the founding fathers wanted our country to stand for {see my sig for link to more quotes that support this view of their intentions}. Freedom of religion is about being able to worship - or not - as each individual sees fit. It is not about taking away that freedom for others or forcing a particular view of these mysteries upon society through government actions.)

Just the other day I had a well meaning coworker tell me that I would be sorry when the rapture comes "like a thief in the night" and I am left to burn in hell (more and more I find these folks seem to think this is something that will happen soon). My question is what happens after time passes and this event does not happen, and their whole world-view crumbles...do they snap and go postal - perhaps to help it along? Is the current administration making diplomatic and unilateral decisions based upon the idea that they are helping along the master plan for Armageddon and the rapture to follow? This 'end-of-the-world' thinking is not only corrosive to tollerance, acceptance and love between people, it could become dangerous to persons and property, breaking down law and order, and when governments and their nuclear arsenals are involved - the survival of the world is in the balance. It concerns me when any religious zealots have their fingers on the trigger - they tend to take no prisoners.

Sorry I digressed. The schoolboard issue is just a mircocosim of what is happening throughout government - and more and more an element of contention within society as a whole.

[Sir Francis Drake]

Digress away, good Ronin. I'm glad you're here.

You really have to wonder what kind of religion that would see anything stealing in "like a theif in the night" and the general bullying that is the threat of Hell as Holy. They seem to be under the impression that God is some kind of a thug. I am sorry for those who feel pressured to live under such oppression, but I suppose they find comfort in the ideas they are most used to.

[L.S.S.]

I'm technically Jewish. I'm still hoping that the FSM won't mind...

[Alpaca]

The FSM just stipulates that you shall have no Monster before him. God does not conflict.

The whole policy here is tolerance.

[SpisBoy]

I'm somewhere between atheist and agnostic: I sort of think that there is no god (but there is a spaghetti monster of course) but the only thing I'm sure of is that there is no way to be completely sure if God exists.

More importantly, I think everyone should determine their own spirituality.

[Noodley Master]

I'm an athiest, besides being a Pastafarian of corse!

[Anazasi]

i'm an intolerant atheist, i want to shout :
there is no god... besides the FSM
there is no heaven... only the beervana (i belive i invented that word Beer+nirvana) with the beer volcano (could be beercano) and the chocolate factory (or could be chocalate factory)

Pasta rocks

[Sir Francis Drake]

i'm an intolerant atheist, i want to shout :
there is no god... besides the FSM
there is no heaven... only the beervana (i belive i invented that word Beer+nirvana) with the beer volcano (could be beercano) and the chocolate factory (or could be chocalate factory)

Pasta rocks

I don't know if you ought to be shouting that you're intolerant, here. Pastafarianism involves tolerance. An intolerant person is one who closes his or her mind. If your mind is closed, things cannot enter. Please reconsider your position.

[Tickle]

i'm an intolerant atheist

Tolereance is a virtue. There is plenty of room in the world for alternatives to coexist.

Pasta rocks

Sound difficult to chew...

[Alpaca]

Admin power backs that up. If you're unwilling to accept the fact that others have different beliefs than you, then watch it.

[Anazasi]

ehm... may be i didn`t chose the right words (English is not my natural language)...
what i meant was that i find unbelievable thing that most of people belive, and that i'm not willing to accept they to impose me their rules/dogmas. Also i'm not willing to accept paying taxes so the state give millons $$ to the catholic church, this things happen in my country (Argentina).

Those are the things that i'm not tolerant about.

"Tolereance is a virtue" yes... but there is a limit, otherwise people will take advantage of you tolerance.

i hope i make thing clear

PS: You'r not being tolerants with intolerants... just a joking, i have no use for new enemies

[Wolfenstein]

What religion are you?

By default I know that you are Pastafarian.

But otherwise what religion are you?

I am a member of the church of Objectivism.

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
— John Galt
Atlas Shrugged

[Wolfenstein]

i'm an intolerant atheist

Tolereance is a virtue. There is plenty of room in the world for alternatives to coexist.

No compromise is evil. If you mix food and posion only poison will be the winner.

[Sir Francis Drake]

ehm... may be i didn`t chose the right words (English is not my natural language)...
what i meant was that i find unbelievable thing that most of people belive, and that i'm not willing to accept they to impose me their rules/dogmas. Also i'm not willing to accept paying taxes so the state give millons $$ to the catholic church, this things happen in my country (Argentina).

Those are the things that i'm not tolerant about.

"Tolereance is a virtue" yes... but there is a limit, otherwise people will take advantage of you tolerance.

i hope i make thing clear

PS: You'r not being tolerants with intolerants... just a joking, i have no use for new enemies

Don't worry! Just because we may disagree on words doesn't mean we're enemies. Quite to the contrary. I'm glad you're here with your opinions.

As a matter of fact, we were talking about intolerance in the monastery recently and pretty much came to the conclusion that you did: That tolerance should be practiced only as long as it's productive to communication. If things become abusive, that's another story all together.

Pasta be with you, friend!

[teripie]

i'm an intolerant atheist

Tolereance is a virtue. There is plenty of room in the world for alternatives to coexist.

No compromise is evil. If you mix food and posion only poison will be the winner.

Not really. Sometimes what is one person's poison does not harm another. Granted, this may seem few and far between, but I think the "food and poison" statement is a little harsh. I'm not defending religion and dogma as the end all, be all, answer to mankind's problems, as I generally find it offensive. But for many people it does give them guidence and hope that they seek or need, and have not found elsewhere.
Back to the "poison" remark, I find that poison ivy has no effect on me. I can touch it, pick it, rub it on my skin and nothing. But my brother now, there's a completely different story. It'll put him in the hospital.