Various Stances on Gun Control Policy

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How much control of privately owned firearms should we havein the USA?

None at all ( Bring on the Rocket Launcher!)
6
21%
Handgun licenses
1
3%
Licenses for ALL guns
13
45%
Nothing except hunting guns
6
21%
Spitball shooters make me nervous
3
10%
 
Total votes : 29

Postby LibraLabRat on Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:54 pm

Chimaera wrote:Many years ago there were a couple of Americans in our office. One was pro-gun and the other anti-gun. We'd take them both down to the pub where they would entertain us by going purple in the face and yelling at each other. It was often hilarious. The anti-gun guy was a farmer and he would tell (I have no idea if this is true) that the hunting season meant vast numbers of people with over-powerful weapons and under-powerful brains shooting everything in sight, including a lineman high up on a pylon (thought he was a bear). He claimed he painted "COW" on his animals with a whitewash brush to help out hunters who had trouble identifying deer.

Just trying to lighten the tone a little here.


Sorry, but I am a hunter, and just dont see the humor.
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Postby Long Gone McGruff on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:07 am

LibraLabRat wrote:Now, how do you counter this?

Aww come on this belongs in the jokes forum. I'm only guessing but, unlike a bank guard, parents probably don't need guns to protect their kids on account of the fact that they're not legal tender and nobody's trying to nick them in the first place.

I don't see a well-made argument here just smart ass advertising agency hackery. Manipulating people's fears like that is disturbing as is the desire to always be "in control". These are not healthy emotions. The solution to a bunch of guys in white robes chasing another bunch of guys with black skin is to lock them up, attack racist attitudes in society, promote equal rights etc.

Long term strategic thinking not short term tactical thinking. You can't arm potential victims without also arming their attackers so what is gained? And no the latter will not as a rule be armed. There most certainly are guns around in Glasgow but I'll never see them. This is how a gun-free culture plays out. There are no roving gangs of gun wielding criminals terrorising innocent citizens. If you had a gun and wanted to rove there's certainly not much to stop you but the on the whole people tend not to.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:12 am

Capellini wrote:
If an individual can't be bothered to wait long enough for a background check to get a gun, and can't be bothered to prove they know how to use it safely, I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE ONE.


if an individual can't be bothered to wait long enough for a background check to get a gun, and can't be bothered to prove they know how to use it safely, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU'RE GOING TO STOP THEM FROM GETTING THE GUN ILLEGALLY!

gee, you know what would cut down on illegal gun use? banning illegal guns! twice the illegallity! fun for the whole family.

and LLR, the last propagana picture was probably a little edgy. but the first two were good. not that I know what a dyke is.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:14 am

Long John McGruff wrote: nobody's trying to nick them in the first place.


yes, they are. many children are abducted, mainly by pedephiles.
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Postby Long Gone McGruff on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:28 am

Well I've never been to America but I'd be fairly confident that the security threats faced by the average high street bank are rather different to those of the average family.
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Postby Chimaera on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:35 am

Qwertyuiopasd wrote:yes, they are. many children are abducted, mainly by pedephiles.


I think you should try to relax a bit. Very few children are abducted. Most of those who are abducted are abducted by an estranged parent. I don't mean you shouldn't be careful. I mean you shouldn't be frightened.

Here in the UK I don't know anyone who has a gun and I don't know anyone who ever had a problem that a gun would have helped with.

I guess it's different in the US. I gather there are lots of problems in the US which are best solved with guns.
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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:45 am

Long John McGruff wrote:Well I've never been to America but I'd be fairly confident that the security threats faced by the average high street bank are rather different to those of the average family.


Wrong. Most criminals know that a bank will have armed guards, and the average home will NOT.


And there have been numerous home invasions, rapes and murders committed in the usa.

Now, as far as Europe goes, it is real simple: We have those in the USA that feel we should just let the UN make our laws for us. I dont. So what works in Europe does not necessarily work here.

After all, people who were bored with Europe in the first place decided to emigrate.

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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:12 am

Ok, now that I am off my propagandizing.

Answer me this:

If one in four women will be the victim of assault in their lifetime, why should women not defend themselves?

Secondly, if a woman is to defend themselves, what should they use? Pepper spray? A stun gun? Or something like a Kel-Tec P32, short, compact, and quite effective.

So, lets take this in one direction at a time.

Women should be able to defend themnselves, right?
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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 am

This is interesting:

From wikipedia:
/snip/

In Florida, which first introduced Florida-style "shall-issue" concealed carry laws, crimes committed against residents dropped markedly upon the wide issuance of concealed carry permits. This had the unintended unfortunate side-effect of putting tourists in Florida driving marked rental cars at risk from criminals, since such individuals getting off airplanes invariably were not carrying concealed, unlike large numbers of residents. Issuing concealed carry permits hence put non-resident tourists in more danger.

The counterclaim to this argument against permitting concealed carry was that the solution in Florida to this problem was simply to pass new laws prohibiting the obvious marking of rental cars, such that identification of individuals who would likely not be carrying concealed could not be easily determined by criminals intent on finding easy marks. With this change, protection was extended to visitors by inference, and crime rates continued to fall with the issuance of "shall-issue" concealed weapons permits. /snip/
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Postby anon1mat0 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:42 am

Marked rental cars had ALWAYS been a target here in FL.

And who knew that the new wild west gun law was protecting me... [roll eyes].
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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:55 am

anon1mat0 wrote:Marked rental cars had ALWAYS been a target here in FL.

And who knew that the new wild west gun law was protecting me... [roll eyes].


Think of it like this: Not knowing who has AIDS or HIV makes you wear a condom with every partner.

Not knowing who has a gun makes you not want to mug people.

Public health benefits.
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Postby anon1mat0 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:02 am

Condoms? What are those? :wink:

...just kidding...
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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:16 am

LOL!

YEah, the pics are a bit over the top. But they do have a point. A lot of your anti gun sites say stupid things like "if you shoot a burglar, he may get angry and hurt you. But you can use oven cleaner to incapacitate a man...."

Nothin doing. IF you shoot someone from a few feet away, they will not get angry. They will get dead, or at least incapacitated.

Florida's violent crime rate has dropped dramatically, and the drop coincides with the widespread concealed carry permit issuance.
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Postby LibraLabRat on Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:22 am

Here is actual propaganda.

http://www.vpc.org/press/0507danger.htm

Here is why it is propaganda:

.50 cal rifles are not "virtually unregulated". They are also extremely expensive, and huge, and heavy.

None of these attributes makes it a good "terrorism" weapon.

ANd why on earth would terrorists come here to buy conspicuous, expensive, and above all AMERICAN weapons when you can buy so many AK and variants overseas cheaply.
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Postby anon1mat0 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:24 am

Correlation doesn't imply causation, unemployment rates have gone down too.

Look, if the root cause for crime remains, conceal carry may deter criminals in the short term, but it will most likely promote an escalation on the long term.

Personally I see a lot of oversimplification on the subject. I don't think guns are the root of all evils nor THE solution.

And it has being said before also, the fear factor in the US really doesn't help, the level of crime in the US is several times lower than some nations with lower firearm deaths per 100.000 habitants.
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