Various Stances on Gun Control Policy

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How much control of privately owned firearms should we havein the USA?

None at all ( Bring on the Rocket Launcher!)
6
21%
Handgun licenses
1
3%
Licenses for ALL guns
13
45%
Nothing except hunting guns
6
21%
Spitball shooters make me nervous
3
10%
 
Total votes : 29

Postby Okapi on Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:28 pm

Where do you serve, LibraLabRat? I have a profound respect for the American military, always have. And for American arms :D
The guy I worked with here was an intelligence communications officer (I can't remember his rank) stationed in Kuwait among a marines division. Aside from a serious obsession with dark, petite Israelis of Yemenite descent, he was a pretty decent fellow, who wanted to quit the army eventually to produce porn in California. His friend was the biggest white man I have ever seen in my life, a combat Marine also stationed in Kuwait. The army wouldn't let him fight in Iraq because he was orthodox Jewish and they were afraid of very direct brutality aimed at his person.
And thanks for refraining from Acronyms. We have them in Hebrew, too, and brothers in arms can tely can pin you right down to what unit you served in from the first sentence uttered in active reserve duty, a sentence otherwise unintelligible to the uninitiated. i can't imagine deciphering something similar in English.
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:16 pm

Our stuff is more ubiquitous, and has a habit of entering common usages.

SNAFU-Situation Negative, all F***ed Up
FUBAR- F***ed up beyond all recognition

and on it goes.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:10 pm

I thought it was Situation Normal All F***ed UP...

I think I saw SNAFU on a hair-cleaning product once...
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:53 pm

Qwertyuiopasd wrote:I thought it was Situation Normal All F***ed UP...

I think I saw SNAFU on a hair-cleaning product once...


That is one interpretation......
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:12 am

A BAAAAD GuN

This is the FN Herstal Five seveN.

It is meant as a companion to the P90, one UGGGGLY military weapon. THese handguns are available for civilian purchase, but they are expensive as hell. Mainly they are meant for law enforcement and military.

Main selling point to the military? With special ammunition, these things will defeat most modern body armor.

now, note that I said WITH SPECIAL AMMUNITION. THis stuff is not available to anyone but the military and law enforcement. And you can get a massive jail sentence for handling AP ammo.

But still, these two just look so freakin cool!

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg18-e.htm
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:50 am

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/crvsgraf.html

Lets ban guns just like England.

Oh, btw, I hope that the Department of Justice doesnt get labeled a "lying lobbyist website".
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:13 am

Here is true gun control from the feminist side of the house.

I love girls with guns.....

http://www.womenandguns.com/
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:28 am

I stumbled across this. IF you can read this, and still stick to "guns should be harder to get than a cross matched donor kidney" you have no soul.


(Sorry about the long post, but this needs to be put in in its entirety)

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/informat ... asp?ID=299
\
Woman Who Once Thought "Guns are Bad" Kills Would-be Rapist

Like most women in this country, I was raised to be a victim. When the existence of guns would come up in my family, I was always told that "guns are bad" and that "only bad people would want to own a gun." I believed it... and that simple mistake has changed my life forever.

When I was a junior in college, I was brutally raped. As I had always been taught by the so-called experts, I didn't resist very strenuously, believing that I would only be hurt worse for fighting back. And I was lucky. No one had ever mentioned that a large portion of rapists kill their victims. Perhaps my living was an oversight, since I have been told that I very nearly bled to death from the personal injuries from the rape. I was lucky to live through a very painful recovery, and being reminded of my violation almost every time I went to the bathroom. I was lucky, because I lived to have almost five years of almost nightly waking up screaming. I was lucky to live. Many women are not so lucky.

And of course, I spent much of those five years playing mind games with myself, wondering what I did to invite the attack, what I could have done to abate or even deter it. And the worst part of it... the very WORST part of all of it... the infuriating knowledge that I did NOTHING to stop it. My rapist most likely continued on to do similar to other women after me. And I didn't do a damn thing to stop it. To this day, I have a hard time facing that knowledge. I consulted with various counselors and psychologists for a while, trying to "work through my rape-related misplaced guilt." Reliably, every counselor assured me that "there was nothing you could have done..." and that anything the rapist did after my own rape "is not my fault." Again, I was being trained to play the victim.

After five years of continuing nightmares, and finding no comfort in being "reassured" that, effectively, I really was as helpless as I felt, I began on my own to look into what I could have done. I took several "women's self-defense" classes, in which the strongest countermeasure taught was a chorus-line kick to the groin. As one of the few things I had tried during my rape, I can speak from experience that it only seemed to make my own rapist more excited. I was beginning to think that maybe everyone was right; maybe there is nothing a woman can do to protect herself from predators. In many ways, I felt more helpless than ever.

About six months ago, a small sign appeared at the local gym offering a free "two day self-defense seminar." I had little faith, but being free of cost and myself being free the requisite Friday and Saturday, I called the number and signed up. After going through the standard "don't walk dark alleys, lock yours doors, etc." speeches, the seminar turned to presenting guns as a viable defense. Had I known at the onset that this seminar would present guns in a positive light, I honestly would have never signed up - after all, guns are bad! Mostly out of politeness, I decided to stay to the next break rather than walking out. By the time the break came, I no longer wanted to leave. Here, at last, was a REAL way that I could have made a difference, not only to myself, but to any victims after me.

Over the next week, most of my free thought was involved in doing the soul-searching advised in the seminar - Could I REALLY pull the trigger against another person? If you knew more of the details of my own ordeal, you would understand why I found myself filling out an application for concealed carry shortly after. I had joined the "evil gun owners." If nothing else, at least I could now go down fighting instead of pleading for my life. While still very bad when they occurred, my nightmares finally began to come less often. While they had previously been reenactments of my rape, they now had become not being able to get to my safely locked gun in time. I began to unlock my handgun each night before going to bed. Seemingly paranoid or not, I felt safer doing so, and feeling safe has not been a common thing for me in the past few years.

Very sadly, about two months ago, I was awakened to the sound of something falling over in my apartment. I had almost gone back to sleep thinking it was the cat when I heard the door of my bedroom opening wider. As I had learned in the seminar, and subsequently drilled into my head, I was quickly propelled through my escalation sequence : I drew my handgun, and issued a single command to "freeze where you are." When the intruder not only continued to approach, but made a rude comment about what he was going to do to me, I double checked my aim squarely on his chest. As he crossed the "imminent threat distance," I was forced to pull the trigger. All told, it took two additional shots before he fully understood how seriously I was determined to stop him.

I have since been cleared of all charges (it WAS self defense, and perhaps surprisingly, the cops agreed). My nightmares have almost disappeared (I once dreamt of running out of ammo... but I still take this as a huge improvement!). While I have some guilt about having to shoot someone, I have never once regretted it. While this may seem vain or even sick to you, I will even admit to feeling something akin to pride for not only protecting myself, but also stopping one rapist permanently.

If you are a woman, please do not buy into the culture of learned helplessness, and please do NOT believe the lies about guns. They are the ONLY thing which empowers a woman sufficiently enough to protect herself against a violent attacker. If you think living with defensive homicide would be worse than being raped, you have clearly never had to walk that dark road - as someone who has, please learn from my own experiences before duplicating them.

If you are a man or a parent, please encourage the women in your life to seriously consider more serious protection than a cooking spice. Train yourself in the use of guns, and train any other members of your family and friends who are willing to accept responsibility. Remember, I would gladly replace my current "Never again" with "Never AT ALL" any day.

Please be safe, and God bless.

"Mary in VA"


Now, after reading that, I want someone to explain to me where we do not have the right to armed self defense.

Anyone.

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Postby Long Gone McGruff on Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:02 am

I think we should change the title of the topic to "There's Only One Stance on Gun Control and You're all Wrong."
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Postby LibraLabRat on Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:05 am

Cute.

I never said there was only one stance. I have been patiently trying to get someone who thinks that the Second Amendment only refers to the National Guard, or any of their other myriad claims to actually defend their positions.

So far, all I get is called names, and emotional crap that has nothing to do with anything.

Why dont you and Capi go have a nice discussion about what a paranoid pigheaded rube I am if you dont have anything to add to the discussion?
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Postby anon1mat0 on Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:23 am

Lets say that you don't leave much room to guess where you stand on the issue.

You have your position. A veeery strong position. And you have been defending it for several consecutive posts....
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Postby Long Gone McGruff on Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:30 am

I've been trying to have a discussion. I actually started out quite interested to hear what you have to say precisely because your opinions on guns are so different to mine. It's a chance for me to better understand what drives people on your side of the argument and a chance to check if I've failed to take account of something important. I can - and will - argue my point of view strongly but don't think I've got a closed mind. You seem to live in a world where people demand the right to wield lethal force in order to be "in control". I live in a post-Dunblane Scotland where, unless you're a farmer, the idea of gun ownership is anathema.

I think your constitution is preventing you from dealing with the real issues and needs to be changed. It provides a convenient justification to stop all debate dead in its tracks. The question is how did you allow your society to degenerate to such a state that people feel they have to wield lethal force in their day-to-day lives, and how can you change that. I had some sympathy for the Israeli member (forget his name now) but America is not Israel. Fix the real problem and you won't need guns.

I'll swap you one rape for one Columbine any day. Gruesome arithmetic indeed but that's the way it goes. There's a bigger picture.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:36 am

columbine wasn't just kids getting guns and going to school and shooting people. the kids parents were negligent, and the kids had problems. I'm not sure how the parents got the guns, but the fact that their kids got them and took them to school shows that they weren't responsible gun owners.

and as for the graph, crime rates will ALWAYS go up when you ban something. take prohibition. crime went way up because people liked alchohol, and just because it was banned didn't mean they were just going to give up. guns are effective weapons, even for just intimidating. so of course people are going to use them to commit crimes. if you ban guns, people are going to find some way to get guns illegally, and then the banning of them just adds to their sentence when they commit a crime with a gun.

and LLR, I do agree with you on most points, but PLEASE STOP QUADRUPLE POSTING!!!! if you have something to add, use the edit button. it's in the rules, "don't double post" and that counts for triple posting and quadruple posting and quintiple posting ect. ect.

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Postby Capellini on Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:41 pm

This whole thread is teetering on the edge of the trash can.

I personally love the fact that someone who's never met me told me I have no soul. As well as the fact that gun CONTROL is still being equated with gun ELIMINATION - which is still lying.
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Postby teripie on Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Just thought I'd pop in to make sure no one has gotten killed here yet. I stopped watching this thread a few days ago as it has been reduced to redundancy. I doubt, hell no, I don't doubt, I believe no one is gonna change anyone else's mind on this topic.
Like I said waaaaay back, it's just an emotional issue that the politicos toss out to keep the populace distracted. Like gay marriage and abortion. And no one is gonna take away anyone's damn guns, and those who are strongly into gun control sure as hell aren't gonna do that....they don't have any guns!
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